As(s)ine Legislation

Spanking is not ipso facto physical abuse. Furthermore, abusus non tollit usus – the abuse of a thing does not destroy it’s right use.

CALIFORNIA TO CONSIDER OUTLAWING SPANKING

The story notes “it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes.”

Words fail me when faced with this kind of idiocy. >:{

Comments 23

  1. Stuff wrote:

    *sigh*

    Funky, you know how I feel about spanking. But you are absolutely right – that the state should have the right to step that far into your rights as a parent is nothing less than a tragedy.

    Posted 19 Jan 2007 at 10:52 pm
  2. Rich | Championable wrote:

    1) I like the pun.

    2) Could you explain your reasoning behind being against this? (I’m not saying yea or nea… I have to think about it.)

    3) Are you also against making one grownup smacking another illegal?

    Just ka-checking.

    Rock on, brother!

    Posted 20 Jan 2007 at 2:10 pm
  3. Funky Dung wrote:

    I may write a blog post on this some day, but for the time being I’ll just say that spanking, done as a prescribed punishment and not out of rage, is a reasonable form of behavioral conditioning for children too young to comprehend/learn from more sophisticated methods.

    I’m pissed because spanking – clearly distringuished from abuse – is a private and personal decision for parents to make, not the nanny state.

    Do I think hitting another person should be illegal? That depends on the hit. A womon slapping a man for being too forward, for instance, is fine by me.

    Posted 20 Jan 2007 at 5:14 pm
  4. Squat wrote:

    I THINK THIS IS THE BEST IDEA EVER. I THINK THEY SHOULD DO THIS IN EVERY STATE.
    *actually i think this is a terrible idea and is ludacrist. i would say more but big brother may be reading this.*

    Posted 21 Jan 2007 at 10:59 am
  5. Advogado wrote:

    I think you should write a post on this subject. I was spanked all too often and turned out all right, but I’m also taking a wait and see approach on this. I’d like to hear some well reasoned arguments for and against.

    Side note: I am suprised by the level of emotion raised by you and a few others. If I had seen this headline on my own I would have forgotten it by the next day.

    Posted 21 Jan 2007 at 11:36 pm
  6. Funky Dung wrote:

    I think you should write a post on this subject.

    I think I shall. Unfortunately, due to research pressures, it’ll be a while. :(

    Posted 22 Jan 2007 at 8:31 am
  7. John wrote:

    This is another instance where the concept of limitted governance comes to center. Striking a child as an act of punishment is morally unacceptable, but it is not something that the government should be legislating.

    That said, the law is somewhat less unreasonable than it initially sounds, because it’s limited to children under the age of four. While I can see someone arguing in favor of corporal punishment, hitting a two year old is just an act of cruelty.

    Posted 22 Jan 2007 at 5:54 pm
  8. Tom Smith wrote:

    What makes spanking morally unacceptable?

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 2:09 am
  9. Rich | Championable wrote:

    Okay. Now I’ve thought about this some more.

    I’ve never spanked my kids. I think that my wife has spanked our kids once in ten years.

    Nonetheless, I think you are correct on this one. There are circumstances under which it’s reasonable. In my opinion, those circumstances are rare.

    Just thought I’d check back in.

    Peace out.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 6:55 am
  10. Funky Dung wrote:

    Striking a child as an act of punishment is morally unacceptable

    Why? For the sake of clarity, tell me why a light whack that makes the butt sting a bit, leaves a little redness, but causes no permanent harm is morally unacceptable.

    While I can see someone arguing in favor of corporal punishment, hitting a two year old is just an act of cruelty.

    Bullfeathers. I’d argue that the younger and less cognitively developed the child, the more necessary corporal punishment is. Spanking is something I’d gradually abandon as a child gets older and more capable of understanding more cerebral punishments.

    In my opinion, those circumstances are rare.

    Why are they rare?

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 7:31 am
  11. Funky Dung wrote:

    BTW, I don’t think spanking is universally necessary. Different children have different discipline needs. I’ve seen kids that likely never needed a spanking and others that were practically begging for it with their atrocious behavior.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 7:33 am
  12. Funky Dung wrote:

    FYI, there’s a lengthy spanking thread at the NFP discussion board at Delphi Forums.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 7:36 am
  13. Rich | Championable wrote:

    Hey.

    To answer your question to my part of the various quoted comments (“Those circumstances are rare.”) It’s because I do not believe that spanking should be a primary punishment. And I believe that because there are other effective ways to convey the same message to children, and I’ll take those over spanking.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 9:53 am
  14. crusader88 wrote:

    The supporters of this bill know nothing about the issue. 70% of parents vote Republican.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 10:07 am
  15. Funky Dung wrote:

    It’s because I do not believe that spanking should be a primary punishment. And I believe that because there are other effective ways to convey the same message to children, and I’ll take those over spanking.

    I agree, but that doesn’t mean spanking is necessarily rare.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 10:08 am
  16. Funky Dung wrote:

    The supporters of this bill know nothing about the issue. 70% of parents vote Republican.

    I’m curious where you got that figure. It’s new to me. BTW, for the sake of full disclosure I should say that I am not yet a parent and that I try to avoid voting for both major parties.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 10:10 am
  17. John wrote:

    Spanking is morally wrong for a variety of reasons.

    Most simply: it is wrong to strike another human being. Particularly a human being that is defenseless except for your aid.

    Less rigidly, it’s a terrible thing to teach a child. One of the primary lessons we try to teach children is that violence is not acceptable. Violence is a remarkably poor tool to instill that lesson. You want to teach a child that they should not hit people because hitting is wrong, not because you can hit harder.

    And to take one more step away from morality, it’s inneffectual. The lesson of a spanking is not “don’t do that,” it’s “don’t get caught.”

    What underlies any argument for corporal punishment is ultimately laziness. People want to think that they can impose values on their children without putting in the effort to live those values. You can try to spotcheck individual behaviors, but if you want to raise just and moral children, you must yourself be a pillar of justice and morality. My parents have raised three children and instilled all of us with very strong senses of values, but I assure you that them yelling at us is not what accomplished that.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 2:29 pm
  18. Funky Dung wrote:

    Most simply: it is wrong to strike another human being…People want to think that they can impose values on their children without putting in the effort to live those values. You can try to spotcheck individual behaviors, but if you want to raise just and moral children, you must yourself be a pillar of justice and morality.

    Aha. It seems we’ve found a core issue now. I do not believe that it is always and everywhere wrong to strike another human being any more than I believe war is always and everywhere wrong. I prefer pacifism, but peaceful solutions are not always practical or feasible.

    Less rigidly, it’s a terrible thing to teach a child. One of the primary lessons we try to teach children is that violence is not acceptable. Violence is a remarkably poor tool to instill that lesson.

    Nevertheless, it is sometimes unavoidable (either literally or due to potential consequences).

    What underlies any argument for corporal punishment is ultimately laziness.

    For some people, that may indeed be the case, but again abuse doesn’t negate use. For many people, including me, my parents, and some of my friends, spanking is not antithetical to our moral principles but part of them.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 2:40 pm
  19. Jungle Pop wrote:

    I would almost enjoy being “sentenced” to parenting classes under this proposed law, just to be supremely difficult. Cuz I doubt it would be illegal to SUPPORT spanking! What could they do? πŸ˜‰

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 3:46 pm
  20. Terry wrote:

    I wasn’t spanked, I was flat out whipped. Paddles; belts; the calloused hand of a welder. And I deserved every single one of them. I dearly love my father and am grateful for the discipline.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 5:06 pm
  21. Terry wrote:

    Oh yeah, I forgot the gratuitous Proverbs 13:24:

    He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

    Posted 23 Jan 2007 at 5:09 pm
  22. Advogado wrote:

    Any research on the effects of spanking or not spanking? Does one method make you more prone to violence?

    Posted 24 Jan 2007 at 1:07 am
  23. Stuff wrote:

    I really don’t want to get into this discussion as it becomes too emotionally draining for me. However, for those who would like to read parenting sources that are “anti-spanking” I would highly recommend “the Discipline Book” by William Sears, MD and Martha Sears, RN. They are a husband and wife team with eight of their own kids and about 30 or so years in the professional field of pediatrics. I don’t think they make more experienced or qualified “experts” on the subject than these two. For a more Catholic approach, see “Parenting With Grace” by Greg Popcak.

    Posted 24 Jan 2007 at 5:21 pm

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