random thought of the moment:
For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances: what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living?
— , Democracy in America
December 1st, 2005 by Funky Dung
I can hear the fundies shrieking and hissing about this already…
"Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI."
On a side note, can anyone verify that my title is correct Latin? Instead of "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus [est]", i.e., "Outside the Church there is no salvation", I wanted "Might there be salvation outside the Church?".
Funky Dung
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Comments 7
I'm not sure they should be upset.
C.S. Lewis, in "The Last Battle" says something very similar. Now that limbo is on the way out, perhaps the Catholic church will take the attitude about the virtuous people from before Christ, in that they had hope in Him by virtue of hoping that God would save them…"I know that my redeemer lives."
I believe that no one can be saved except through Christ. Of course, my definition of "through Christ" might get me lynched in a lot of fundie circles.
Not that I would do all that well in the R.C. church. Do you think the Church is going back to St. Augustine's view on unbaptized babies? The more I read of St. Augustine, the less I like him. How much of what he says is considered "orthodoxy" by the church?
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 6:42 am ¶I'm with you on the "Last Battle" comment.
Don't rag on Augie. He's my patron saint!
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 2:31 pm ¶I'm sorry, I didn't realize he was your patron saint. I was asked to do a talk on coping with the sexual side effects of antidepressants. I'm not terribly comfortable discussing sex with close friends, let alone an entire roomful of people. I figured I could go into "nerd" mode, though, where I'm pretty much impossible to shut up.
A large percentage of the audience would be R.C. So I did some research, thinking I could tailor the talk so as to accomodate the audience's faith. In the process of research, I ran across St. Augustine's beliefs on sex.
I decided to not do the talk.
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 2:56 pm ¶Augustine had some pretty extreme views on sex. A lot of that had to do with his own pre-Christian sexual licentiousness. He did things that made him bearly hate himself. I can understand the feeling. Though I wasn't having sex with anything that moved like Augustine did, I've long struggled with pornography. It contributed to my depression (for which I was on meds a few years ago). I still struggle with it, and it often makes me nearly hate myself. The point I'm getting at is that Augustine's extreme views on sex were more personal than theological and shouldn't be allowed to taint his excellent theological works.
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 3:05 pm ¶You're right, of course. Lewis, prior to his marriage, had horrid views on women. I can't read "That Hideous Strength" anymore because of it. So God arranges for him to meet Joy, a rather feisty American who made him rethink a lot of things.
I think reading Augustine made me realize I simply wasn't willing to risk the discussion. Protestants often have strange views on sex, too.
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 3:29 pm ¶"I'm not sure they should be upset.
C.S. Lewis, in 'The Last Battle' says something very similar."
The kind of fundies I'm thinking of doubt Lewis was even a Christian.
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 4:02 pm ¶Rob,
I'm not sure what you mean by the RCC taking a different attitude (if that's what you meant at all) about Old Testament holy people - the Church calendar currently sets aside a day in December (not sure exact date) memorializing as Saints Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The view expressed by the Pope and St. Augustine doesn't seem to be anything novel to me, but I don't claim expertise in this area
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Posted 01 Dec 2005 at 4:57 pm ¶Post a Comment