Still Hope

I’m holding on to the hope that the Democratic Party will make room under their "big tent" for the Culture of Life. I just pray what I’m seeing is sincere and not just a cheap ploy for votes.

Pro-Life Democrat Gets Backing for Party Chair, Could Start Abortion Debate
Will Pro-abort Gasp Spell Last Gasp for Party of Death?
Meet the Press transcript from December 12

Comments 12

  1. Funky Dung wrote:

    Your source for saying that it was about drugs is two people who tied someone to a fence and beat him to death. Would you really put it by them to defame his memory by claiming it was a drug hit?

    That’s a pretty bold claim. You have no evidence that they want to defame Shepard’s memory. Besides, why is bigotry any more likely a motive for a beating than drug money? I thin it was you that said (or perhaps quoted) that a lie, repeated often enough, starts to seem like the truth. Was Shepard really beaten because he was gay or do you just believe that because the media have repeated that claim with little evidence to substantiate it?

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 6:13 am
  2. Funky Dung wrote:

    Actually, historically speaking (and I think John can back me up on this), the Catholic Church’s ties to the Democratic Party were once so tight that it seemed as though the American Church was an official arm of the Party. Priests basically stumped for candidates from the pulpit. Catholics used to vote almost exclusively Democrat. That started to change when the Democratic Party embraced abortion.

    The alleged support for Republican candidates by certain members of the Church hierarchy is rather tenuous and more a matter of “Candidate A is unacceptable” not “Vote for Candidate B because A is awful” or even “Vote for Candidate B because he’s great”. There are certain non-negotiable issues that right now are proudly maintained as planks in the Democratic Party platform. The Church has not suddenly ejected the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has marginalized politicians and voters who’s morals coincide with Catholic teaching.

    There’s plenty of room for Democrats in the Catholic Church – pro-life Democrats.

    Posted 18 Dec 2004 at 2:55 pm
  3. Jerry Nora wrote:

    Alektra, you’re comparing apples and organges. Vatican statements on homosexuality reiterate time and again that discrimination against homosexuals in the workplace or violence against them is forbidden.

    Marriage is intimately tied with procreation in the Church, and a same-sex couple cannot reproduce by reasons of cold hard biology (unless you throw in tons of biotechnology, and inevitably using IVF-type procedures that the Church opposes as well). Therefore the Church would condemn the Shepard case as a heinous crime, as it would any murder or hate crime, but condemning that does not require a particular stance on gay marriage.

    Posted 18 Dec 2004 at 7:07 pm
  4. John wrote:

    First, Catholics have never been overwhelmingly Democratic the way that Jews or blacks are and have been.
    They voted overwhelmingly for JFK, but if you consider that a special case, they’ve tended to lean democratic, but not super strongly.
    A lot of that may be tangential though. There were a lot of poor urban Catholics in this country in the middle of the century. It’s hard to say whether the correlation is due to Catholicism or other conditions which happened to be prevalent in the Catholic Community.

    More importantly, the line about Shepard is at best iffy and at worst appalling. Your source for saying that it was about drugs is two people who tied someone to a fence and beat him to death. Would you really put it by them to defame his memory by claiming it was a drug hit?
    Also: where is your liberal media on this? For all you’ll bitch and moan, they never hesitate to take the hatchet to prominant gay figures. This is the same media that circulated the rumors that Barney Frank had molested children.

    Watch it buddy.

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 2:21 am
  5. Funky Dung wrote:

    I don’t have time to go into detail right now (hooray for Christmas cookies), but I’d like to point out that Matthew Shepard was not beaten to death because he was gay. He refused to pay money he owed to his drug dealers.

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1

    Still, like Jerry says, there’s a difference between accepting homosexuals as persons worthy of dignity and respect and accepting their lifestyle. Homosexual activity is gravely sinful and there’s no room for debate on that. The day the Church accepts homosexual activity as healthy and normal is the day the Church embraces heresy.

    Posted 18 Dec 2004 at 7:18 pm
  6. Drina wrote:

    I’m holding on to hope that the Catholic Church will make room for Democrats, which has thus far not been the case.

    Posted 18 Dec 2004 at 7:09 am
  7. John wrote:

    If you read the article more closely you’ll also see that it doesn’t say he owed drug money. It says that people who wanted money for drugs robbed and murdered him.

    This is the most recent of many stories the killers have told, and it doesn’t really add up. If they just wanted money, why did they brutally kill him?

    Also, if you’re going to ask me why I am inclined to believe one story, I think it’s fair for me to ask why you seem to be stumbling over yourself to try to believe that he got what he had coming.

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 11:16 am
  8. John wrote:

    Sorry for not explaining that.
    Barney Frank is the Congressman from my district back home. He is openly gay. He is also a man of tremendous integrity. People have made up a lot of trully awful stories about him because they don’t like there to be such a good example of a gay person who leads a normal life and does good for his community.

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 8:08 am
  9. Jerry Nora wrote:

    Ultimately, Shepard’s death was a terrible thing regardless of the precise motives. Be it anti-gay or a drug-related murder, the Vatican would oppose such violence regardless. This shouldn’t derail the original debate on homosexuality and the Church.

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 5:28 pm
  10. alektra wrote:

    What about pro gay-rights Democrats? I can be pro-life and still believe that someone’s life shouldn’t be shunned and hated and tortured (Matthew Shepard comes to mind) because of who they are.

    I haven’t searched your site extensively, but I wondered how you took on this topic? I know the Church is against gay marriage, but many priests in Pittsburgh and across the US have a different stand on it.

    Posted 18 Dec 2004 at 6:49 pm
  11. Funky Dung wrote:

    Who’s Barney Frank?

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 6:13 am
  12. Funky Dung wrote:

    You’re a great guy, John, and you’re heart’s in the right place, but you have a rather nasty habit of putting words in peoples’ mouths. A counterpoint to one of your statements need not be clear across the spectrum. I sometimes feel like we’re playing tetherball with a pendulum.

    Anyhow, I never said anything about him getting “what he had coming”. I merely question the need to raising him to martyr status. Maybe he was beaten for being gay. I don’t know. I’m wondering, though, why one would assume that was the motive. Wouldn’t Occam’s Razor apply here? Shepard had a drug problem. The perpetrators had drug problems. At least one knew Shepard. Shepard looked well off and the they were desperate for money. The simplest explanation seems to me to be that the beating involved drugs and money. Does that make it so? No, but where’s the evidence that it was hate-related?

    Posted 19 Dec 2004 at 2:42 pm

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