Delayed Reaction

This morning someone commented on an entry I posted July 31.

“Dude, you were raised lutheran, you were an agnostic and now you think you’re like, what, the pope’s right hand man? Take it from this cradle catholic and quit judging people. Don’t think you can just crash the party and start playing the records that you want. I was an altar girl when I was in school and now they’re saying that women have to know their place? Excuse me, but I don’t have to agree to that.

You so funny. Ooh, heresy! Let’s burn ’em at the stake! Sorry, dude, but we left the inquisition behind. Why don’t you warm up with a little social justice work instead?”

Deb

What was I writing about that could rile Deb so?

To save you from digging back into my archives, I repost the relevant parts here.

Catholics for a Free Choice in the United States works in partnership with reproductive health, interfaith and Catholic church reform groups that share our commitment to safe, legal reproductive health care and women’s equality.

CFFC supports artificial contraception, abortion “rights”, heresy, open disobedience, and female priesthood. In other words, they’re Catholics in name only (CINO). One of these days, I or someone I trust will post a fisking of CFFC’s mission statement here.

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.” 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (RSV)

Anyhow, the reason I brought this abominable group up is that they released a statement in response to “On the Collaboration of Men and Women in the Church and in the World”.

Now that we’re all up to speed on this, let’s answer Deb.

“Dude, you were raised lutheran, you were an agnostic and now you think you’re like, what, the pope’s right hand man?”

Why should it matter how I got to the Church, so long as I got to it? Also, I don’t think nearly so high of myself or my knowlege of theological matters as you seem to think – from reading a single post. I am loyal to the True Church of Christ, the teachings of her magesterium, and the leadership of her pope. When I speak on theological matters, I frequently refer to Scripture and/or the Catechism of the Catholic Church. For anything that cannot be directly or easily answered by either I rely upon fellow orthodox bloggers and the excellent priests at the Pittsburgh Oratory. When I’m speculating, rather than explaining Church teachings, I’m pretty good about saying so to avoid confusion or misinformation.

“Take it from this cradle catholic and quit judging people. “

I fail to see how being a cradle Catholic makes you authoritative in theological matters. Also, who is judging whom? You’re the one calling me self-righteous.

” Don’t think you can just crash the party and start playing the records that you want.”

So you think converts like me are bossing everyone around and changing things from what you’re used to? If that’s the case, then you should meet my army of cradle Catholic friends who are just as eager to undo the damage done by those acting “in the spirit Vatican II”. (NOTA BENE: I don’t reject Vatican II as a valid council or disregard its documents. I reject the abuses which followed the council.)

“I was an altar girl when I was in school and now they’re saying that women have to know their place? Excuse me, but I don’t have to agree to that.”

I don’t have a problem with altar girls. However, I can also understand if the Church wants to restore the position as a stepping stone to the priesthood. If that’s the case, then since women can’t be priests, girls shouldn’t serve at the altar. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I think the CFFC supports female ordination. That’s contrary to Church teaching. You claim you don’t have to agree with the Church. Actually, you do. Reason? It’s called obedience. More precisely, it depends on what you mean by agreement. If you disagree with the Church, you can work to change it from within, but you may not openly teach that the Church is wrong. That’s cause for scandal.

“You so funny. Ooh, heresy! Let’s burn ’em at the stake! Sorry, dude, but we left the inquisition behind.”

Cradle Catholic you may be, but your catechesis was poor. The Catechism says, “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” The CFFC is heretical because of their openly disobedient beliefs and teachings about abortion, contraception, and other issues. The concept of heresy didn’t disappear from Catholic teaching in the 60’s as you seem to believe.

“Why don’t you warm up with a little social justice work instead?”

I am involved in social justice work. It’s called the pro-life movement.

“If you want peace, work for justice. If you want justice, defend life. If you want life, embrace truth — truth revealed by God.” – Pope John Paul II

Comments 11

  1. Jerry wrote:

    “…eager to undo the damage done by Vatican II. (NOTA BENE: I don’t reject Vatican II as a valid council or disregard its documents. I reject the abuses which followed the council.) “

    I agree with your intent, but your wording implies that Vatican II itself hurt the Church (“..damage done by Vatican II”), not just the people who claimed its mantle after the Council had ended. Maybe it sounds like nitpicking, but what would you think of someone who spoke of “the damage done by Nicea(or Trent)?” :)

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 3:46 pm
  2. Funky Dung wrote:

    Deb,

    Out of curiousity, how did you find my post?

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 7:56 pm
  3. Jerry Nora wrote:

    Good for you.

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 8:47 pm
  4. theomorph wrote:

    Ha! Yeah, well, it doesn’t seem to matter what anyone else thinks. The more I learn, the less I know I know and the dumber I feel. Or, in the words of the inimitable Donald Rumsfeld (from Pieces of Intelligence: The Existential Poetry of Donald H. Rumsfeld, compiled and edited by Hart Seely):

    The Unknown

    As we know,
    There are known knowns.
    There are things we know we know.
    We also know
    There are known unknowns.
    That is to say
    We know there are some things
    We do not know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns,
    The ones we don’t know we don’t know.

    Yeah, and I’d say there are more of the third than both of the others put together! –theomorph

    Posted 13 Nov 2004 at 2:13 am
  5. Donna Marie Lewis wrote:

    I’d guess that this is a ‘cradle Catholic’ who tends to think of ‘being Catholic’ as a birthright rather than as a Faith and a relationship. Hence the scorn for you. She does not want to be reminded that the Faith is not imprinted on the genes, but must be practiced in order to be real. (About 1/2 of my relatives are similar….and not just the young ones, either…)

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 3:47 pm
  6. Jerry wrote:

    It might be a good idea to refer Deb to the discussions on the Constitutional support for the Church (or any other association, from Toyota to the NAACP or even the CFFC) to create its own rules and regulations for membership and good standing. I think it important to show how Church discipline in fact is protected by a cornerstore of American political thought.

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 3:52 pm
  7. theomorph wrote:

    It’s stuff like this that reminds me how happy I am to be an atheist. No scriptures, no doctrines, no authoritative councils to worry about. I love thinking for myself without regard to authority, even though I feel like a complete idiot most of the time. Better to be my own broken machine than a cog in someone else’s.

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 8:17 pm
  8. Funky Dung wrote:

    Jer,

    Fixed?

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 3:55 pm
  9. Jerry Nora wrote:

    Perfect. Thanks. :)

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 5:46 pm
  10. steve wrote:

    Theo, I would love to take this

    It’s stuff like this that reminds me how happy I am to be an atheist. No scriptures, no doctrines, no authoritative councils to worry about. I love thinking for myself without regard to authority, even though I feel like a complete idiot most of the time.

    up again, but the demands (all 6 of ’em) of real life beckon. But take some consolation in my observation that I don’t think you’re a complete idiot most of the time! 😉

    Good nite!

    Posted 12 Nov 2004 at 11:23 pm
  11. Philothea Rose wrote:

    Why is it that people don’t think of right-to-life issues as FUNDAMENTAL teachings of the Church? Why do they think it’s a give-or-take thing? Being a pro-life Catholic should be like being a Catholic who goes to Mass every Sunday. Oh…yeah…oops, some people “forget” about that too. 😉

    Posted 13 Nov 2004 at 7:51 am

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