Tag Archives: soteriology

Salvation and Damnation = Incentives for Good Behavior?

Powerball asks an interesting question. Before I get to it, though. Here's a snippet of the article that made him ask it. It was discussed on The Marty Minto Show today.

"Stacy Payne says both of her sons are smart, athletic and well-liked by their friends. But after hearing horror stories of teenage keg parties and drug abuse, she doesn't plan on 'playing stupid.'"

"So she and her husband are offering their 15-year-old and 12-year-old sons the mother of all bribes: $1,000 each at their high school graduation, as long as they don't touch cigarettes, alcohol or drugs before then. "

"Each son has signed a contract agreeing to their parents' condition. And as a reminder of their pact, each wears a leather bracelet inscribed with the word 'BRIBED.'"

ASHLEY ROWLAND
For The Birmingham News

So here's what Powerball asks:

"Does God 'bribe' us with the promise of salvation? We talked about it on the show. I want to know what you think. If you were not rewarded with eternal life would you still be a Christian? (Assuming you are) Let me know what you think."

I asked a very similar question in an email I wrote to Marty.

"Isn't the beatific vision in Heaven incentive from God to do as He asks? Answer this honestly: would you follow the teachings of Christ if there was no resurrection of the dead? As Paul says, if there is no resurrection, we are to be pitied for believing and behaving as we do."

"We are God's children. Is Heaven bribery from God? No, but it is incentive. There's nothing wrong with giving children incentive to behave properly. On the other hand, incentives don't work without punishment for improper behavior. "

The punishment I alluded to, in this case, would be eternal damnation in Hell for some and finite pain for others in purgatory.

Purgatory Pickle

There is a very common misunderstanding among Evangelicals regarding purgatory.
This
Earnestly Contending (which, for reasons unknown has no commenting capability) post
,
a quote from Charles Spurgeon, represents well.

“But shall I tell you who the gentlemen are who generally raise objections to the glorious privilege of assurance? There are, first of all, the adherents of the Pope of Rome. Of course, the Papist does not like full assurance. And why? The Pope and his priest would have a lean larder if full assurance were well preached. Only conceive my brethren, if the Roman Catholic could get the full assurance of salvation, surely the Cardinals would hardly find money enough to buy their red hats. For where were purgatory then? Purgatory is an impossibility, if full assurance be possible. If a man knows himself to be saved, then he is not to be troubled with a silly fear about waiting in the intermediate state, to be purified with fire, before he can enter into heaven. Purgatory is only acceptable to those poor trembling souls who know of no sure salvation here, and are glad of this deceptive hope of a salvation to be wrought in the world to come. Purgatory being thus builded upon a lying imposition — on the fears of ignorant consciences, becomes what brave old Hugh Latimer used to call it, ‘Purgatory Pick-purse,’ to the poor sinner, and ‘Purgatory Fillpurse’ to the vagabond priest. Once let full assurance be given to all Christian men — first make the Romanist a Christian, and then let him be fully assured of his interest in Christ, and away goes purgatory, and there will never be a soul found to tremble at it any more.” – Charles H. Spurgeon; from a sermon on Sunday, April 28th, 1861(emphasis mine)

There is no salvation to be wrought after death, in purgatory or elsewhere. Even if Catholics believed in full assurance, they could believe in purgatory. Purgatory is not a destination, but a lay-over. Only those who are saved experience purgation, i.e cleansing. Nothing imperfect can enter the presense of God in heaven. Humans are certainly far from perfect. By the end of our lives, we have accumulated spiritual scar tissue that sin produces. Also, even the most saintly of individuals is not entirely conformed to Christ and His commands at death. Therefore, all stain of sin and its waste products must be purged from us before we enter the beatific vision.

UPDATE: Steve, a faithful reader, has provided some Scripture to support the need purgation.

“As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison. I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper.” – Luke 21:58-59

“According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” – 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

“And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” – Philippians 1:6

“But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven], nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.” – Revelation 21:27

Catholic Anwers has an excellent defense of purgatorian doctrine that readers might enjoy. Apologist Mark Shea (a former Evangelical) wrote one, too. C.S. Lewis, a Protestant author and a favorite of mine, tossed in his two cents as well.

A Wicked and False Religion?

Like I said, the Church has PR problems. Rand, of A Pattern of Sound Words, asserts:

"A Christian Roman Catholic, to me, is as opposite as a Nazi Jew. One cannot be a follower of Christ and be a follower of Romanism at the same time. Why? Because the Romanist worships a god different than the God of the Bible. For example, consider the 2nd person of the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ:"

"Romanism – Jesus was born of a sinless, perfect mother, who is declared the 'Queen of Heaven'.
Biblical Christinity – Jesus was born of a kind, godly woman, but still a sinner by birth and choice (Luke 1:26-38)."

The best explanation I have ever heard for Mary's sinless conception was from a Rabbi. The Ark of the Covenant was the seat of God on earth. It could only be safely approached and touched by ritually clean priests at certain times of the year. Mary was the ark of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ (Matthew 26:26-28). Her preservation from Original Sin, as well as actual sin, does not, as some suggest, imply that she did not need Christ's saving grace, made possible by the cross. God is not bound by time. He created it. Thus, Mary received at her conception the saving grace of Christ's sacrifice. Continue reading

Catholic Church Teaching Universalism?

I'm discovering more and more that the Catholic Church has some serious PR problems. This Earnestly Contending post is representative of the many Protestant (mostly Evangelical) gross misunderstandings of Catholic teachings and teaching authority that I've encountered. My responses are drawn from comments I made at Weapons of Warfare. Continue reading

Saved/Judged as the Body?

Michael Gallaugher, of Christian Conservative, asks the following question.

Nearly all people of faith believe their fate before God will depend largely upon our individual lives. However, some people believe the judgement awaiting us in the next life will not only be weighed against our lives as individuals, but the fruit of the broader culture we take part in shaping as well. I’m curious to get your reaction to the latter belief.

To which I responded:

The Catholic Church teaches that there will be both a particular
judgement
and a last judgement.
We also believe that the faithful are not only saved as individual souls, but also
as the Mystical Body of
Christ
.

This was not well-received by the Protestant commenters. I’m not sure if they really oppose the Church’s views or oppose them because they are “Romish” views. Could any of Protestant readers clarify this for me? Would any of my Catholic readers be able/willing to help me defend the Church?