Marty Minto, winner of the 2004 Pittsburgh Achievement in Radio Award for Best Afternoon Show on a News Talk, Personality or Sports Station, has been fired by Christian radio station WORD-FM (owned by Salem Communications) for "alienating listeners". In addition to working for three years as host at WORD-FM, Marty is senior pastor of Turning Point Community Church in New Castle. Readers of this blog may have read posts about or inspired by his show. "Marty Minto Show" producer Shaun "Powerball" Pierce announced the news on PowerBlog.

"It is with mixed emotions that I inform all of you that the Marty Minto show is no more. Marty is no longer employed with WORD FM."

"I have produced the show for 3 years now. I owe Marty a debt of gratitude for the challenges he presented. He caused me to search the scripture and grow stronger in my own personal faith. For that I will always be grateful, despite the fact that we disagreed on many issues. I consider Marty a friend and I wish him the best in his future endeavors."

"As for the program, I will still be producing the show. The same time, same station. We will have guest hosts for awhile as we develop a brand new and exciting program."

"PowerBlog will be here for you. As things continue to develop, I will keep you informed. I ask all of you for your prayers and continued support and we embark on new journey together."

The news was surprising but not a complete shock. Marty upset a lot of listeners with his controversial - and lopsided - discussions about Catholic theology. He also made enemies among his listeners by criticising The Purpose Driven Life for its shallow and deficient theology (something I actually agreed with him on). I contacted WORD-FM via email on Tuesday to find out if there would be an official press release regarding Marty's departure. Operations manager Kenny Woods replied in the negative.

"Thanks for your email. Marty is no longer with the station. The search for a replacement show or host is now underway. Please keep us and our future host in your prayers as we begin looking! There is no official press release scheduled at this time."

"God Bless, and thanks for listening to 101.5 WORD-FM."

I suspect Mr. Woods and the remainder of the WORD-FM administration may now wish they had made an official statement. AP picked up the story and as of today it has gone national. The fact that The Drudge Report highlighted it certainly contributed to that. The AP article may have been based on one published in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, which contained lengthier (and more contextually rich) quotes.

"I was called into the office after my show Friday and told that I was being let go because I was alienating the listeners," said Minto, 39, of New Castle, Lawrence County, who previously did talk-radio shows in Albany, N.Y., Phoenix and Denver. Minto also is senior pastor of the 100-member Turning Point Community Church in New Castle."

"'As far as I'm concerned, I was doing what I've always done on the radio -- look at events around the world from a biblical perspective,' said Minto. 'I've always been willing to talk about controversial subjects.'"

"Chuck Gratner, general manager of WORD-FM for the past 14 years, said the station does not dispute Minto's account of events."

"'We ended our relationship' with him because of differences in how he conducted his show, Gratner said."

"'WORD-FM needs to function in this city in support of the entire church -- that means everybody -- and not focus on denominational issues,' he said."

Powerball reacted to the furor this morning.

"Well, the story is all over the place. 'Pittsburgh Radio Host Fired For Wondering If Pope Went To Heaven' My day started out with a phone call about an AP article that talked about Marty Minto. Then the Drudge Report picked it up. Then my phone started ringing with reporters from ABC and other national talk shows. Many of you have emailed me as well."

"I'm going to say one thing and one thing only about all this. Don't believe everything you read. That's it. Nothing more. I have too much respect for everyone involved to push the issue. Most of you have been very kind to me. Some of you have accused me of being behind all this. Believe what you want to believe."

"I have always said things happen for a reason. Both good and bad things. Sometimes it takes years to know what that reason is and when we do it's just another reminder of who is really in control of our life."

Marty and I certainly didn't see eye-to-eye on theological issues, but he seemed like a great guy and he had a good radio presence (butchering of English aside). I will miss hearing his voice every day.

It's funny, his anti-Catholic antics drove me up a wall and the plethora of emails I sent him probably annoyed him just as much. Now that I know that his show won't be on anymore, I feel sick to my stomach and I'm feeling kind of misty-eyed. I would have liked to see him soften up a little on certain issues, not get fired.

For another blogger's perspective on this issue, check out The Green Knight's post, "Not a Good Guy".

"To be blunt, Marty Minto is a religious bigot."

....

"He is not a good guy. There is no need to defend him. Yes, theology should be open to debate, like everything else. That doesn't mean that we should be defending every know-nothing jerk who opens his mouth. That's the same kind of supine passivity before bigotry that allowed right-wing talk radio to rise to prominence. If theology is to be criticized, that includes the theology of the critic."

"But it's not theology that got him fired, anyway; it was tastelessness..."

"The appropriate reaction to the firing of a right-wing bigot is to say, 'Good.' Got it?"

Ouch.

There also various interesting responses to Powerball's initial post.

Pray that the Lord guides Marty swiftly to suitable employment elsewhere. Also pray that his replacement follows his example of challenging people to know, understand, and live their faith. I fear for WORD FM listeners if his successor merely tickles their ears and tells them what they want to hear.

More on this story as it develops...

Update: Eschaton, a prominent liberal political blog, has picked up the story.

"There is no 'entire church.' There are a bunch of different denominations with entirely different basic belief systems, once you get past the Jesus thing. It's time to grow up and recognize this instead of painting Christianity as some ill-defined congregation of social conservatives."

*Grumble* First of all, Atrios, you're not a Pittsburgher or WORD-FM listener, and all you read was a vague AP article. You don't know all the facts. The AP story doesn't really cover all that was going on. Marty was ill-informed about Catholicism, was unnecessarily harsh to Catholic callers, and generally sounded like a Jack Chick tract at times. I'm all about theological debates. I love 'em. However, if you're going to be a Christian radio station that wishes to appeal to all major denominations, you need to be more considerate of peoples's faith. There's plenty of common ground that can be discussed (ala Mere Christianity). Marty was very biased and didn't take criticism of his exegesis and hermeneutics well. I didn't want him fired, but I would have liked him to be more considerate and more intellectually honest.

If you're thinking of responding to Atrios, be aware that some (most, actually) of the comments are rather unsavory.

Update: Marty has been interviewed by Pittsburgh ABC affiliate WTAE-TV 4 and had the following to say.

"I have never been fired, never been let go. I just don't understand. I haven't done anything like a Howard Stern or went against any FCC rule or regulation."

"I asked listeners if they're getting too much or not enough of the 24/7 coverage"

"I find it hard to believe I'm alienating people. My lines have been jammed all week. Hundreds of e-mails. I believe I had a right to share. It's a talk show. It's controversial because of the topics we talk about. I am appalled that, all of a sudden, my so-called brothers and sisters in the world have now said, 'You are no longer allowed to say anything; we're firing you. We're quenching your speech because you went too far.'"

BTW, he's thinking of speaking with an attorney. Good luck, Marty. Pennsylvania is a "hire and fire at will" state. Unless he can prove that WORD-FM fired him for illegal reasons (race, age, sex, religion, etc), he'd just be wasting his time and money taking them to court. The station was merely looking out for its best interests. If he was alienating investors and advertisers, the station's ability to broadcast at all was threatened. It's better to cut one controversial show loose than to lose the whole station.

Update: The Plain Dealer in Cleveland, Ohio and the Lonestar Times in Houston, Texas have thrown in their two cents.

"Note to would-be replacements: Do not question, on the air, in a heavily Catholic region, whether Pope John Paul II made it into heaven because he was not a 'born-again' Christian. Ironically, doing so has put Minto in radio purgatory." - Chuck Yarborough, Plain Dealer

"While the station manager is certainly free to program in any way he sees fit, one wonders if this is another case of 'Let’s play it safe.'"

"Fortunately for Houstonians there is little fear of boring 'safe' radio, as evidenced by the lively discussion of this story on KSEV [AM 700] during Mr. [Dan] Patrick’s show." - Jeremy Weidenhof, Lonestar Times

Update: Coffee Conversations joins the fray and offers a cryptic reference to Marty's old show in Phoenix, AZ. Scotwise points to a conversation about Marty at World Magazine Blog he calls "a holy war".

Update: The Christianity today weblog highlighted the story. Also, WorldNet Daily columnist and WorldView Weekend founder Brannon S. Howse has a hagiographical account of Marty's firing, making him out to be some sort of Evangelical martyr. He describes Minto's demeanor on MSNBC's Scarborourgh Country as "calm, respectful and Christ-like". I don't think that's entirely inaccurate as a description of Marty's demeanor, even on his own show - unless, of course, you get his dander up about some pet peeve issue. Catholic doctrine is one of them. Amidst Howse's fawning over Marty, he does make some good points. He worries that WORD-FM's salt is losing it's flavor saying, "Perhaps Salem Communications should change its WORD-FM to TOLERANCE-FM or POLITICALLY CORRECT-FM." I, too, worry that Marty's show will be replaced with milktoast, but discussing tough issues should involve hearing competent experts from all major sides, something Marty never allowed. Numerous requests were made for Catholic apologists to rebutt his claims, which he consistently rejected. Anyhow, I don't think Marty's problems are insurmountable and, like Pat Buchanan, I hope he gets his show back.

Update: Catholic aplogist Jimmy Akin has thrown his cowboy hat into the ring saying, "I don't see firing somebody because he simply said that it's not 100% guaranteed that John Paul II is in heaven...Now, if you want to fire somebody because they're saying that one must be born again in an event apart from baptism and that's pushing a denominational issue on the Christian community as a whole, feel free.". Ah, if only it were that simpl, Jimmy.

Update: WORD-FM has finally giving an official comment.

"The story in Thursday’s Pittsburgh Tribune Review would lead you to believe that we ended Mr. Minto’s program because 'He questioned if the pope’s Roman Catholic beliefs would impede his entry to heaven.' This statement did not come from the management of WORD-FM. A similar headline accompanied an AP wire story that unfortunately was not fact checked. We have never placed any restrictions on subject matter for the talk show. Mr. Minto knows that. The decision to release Mr. Minto had been under consideration for an extended period, primarily because of our concern that he tended to unnecessarily alienate listeners; and was finalized well before the pope was in the news. The conclusion that he was released because of his views on the pope is completely without foundation. We regret that you were left with a perception that is false." (emphasis mine)

I heard Marty crack jokes about nearly getting fired several times but I didn't think much of it at the time. I guess he wasn't kidding.

Dr. James White, no friend to Catholicism, has joined the mob of malcontents yelling "Censorship!", questioning WORD-FM's commitment to biblical Christianity, and general shooting off their mouths (and blogs) about things they know little or nothing about.

Eric Svendsen, another Protestant apologist, is fuming of Marty's firing. His first rant on the subject can be found here.

"Be honest, Chuck Gratner. It’s really about money and sponsors, isn’t it Chuck Gratner? It’s really about how much you and your station can line your pockets, isn’t it Chuck Gratner? It’s really about the embarrassment and shame that accompanies the truth of the gospel, isn’t it Chuck Gratner? It’s really about not having the courage to stand for truth that’s no longer popular in an spiritually adulterous generation, isn’t it Chuck Gratner? That’s just a bit too much to ask, isn’t it? So, as a result you end up being darkness in the midst of a wicked and perverse generation, and you end up cloaking the word of life so that the hapless followers of false gospels can be confirmed in their error and feel good about that error. Isn’t that really what it’s all about, Chuck Gratner?"

Don't hold back, Eric. Tell us what you really think.

"Because his theologically naïve, spirit-of-the-age boss, Chuck Gratner - who would rather be politically correct than theologically correct, and who would rather be in the world than in the truth - cowardly decided to sell his birth-right and sing Kumbaya with a man who his entire papal career proclaimed a 'gospel' that is antithetical to the apostolic gospel and cannot therefore save anyone, who led millions down the path to destruction by means of that 'gospel,' and who in the end relied on Mary to save him. Is there any doubt in the mind of anyone who takes the Scriptures as his final authority that the pope can’t possibly be in heaven? NO ONE goes to heaven based on the Roman Catholic 'gospel,' even if some make it there in spite of that gospel. NO ONE goes to heaven who relies for his salvation one the mother of the One mediator between man and God!"

It's nice to see that clown colleges are still producing fine graduates.

Local blog, Honsberger is a Liar, had the following to say, noting that Marty appeared on his former competitor's program on Friday.

"I'm really not sure where to begin here. Minto was told he was being fired for 'alienating' WORD listeners. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't. Fred and Marty did spend some time criticizing the Catholic Church's worship of Mary and the Saints in roundabout ways. Mostly at the level of 'It's not Biblical, but if that's what they believe that's fine.' Interesting religious relativism, if you ask me."

....

"'All according to Marty's understanding of the Bible.' That's what happens when sola scriptura is a guiding principle. Private exegesis is a sure way to heterodoxy and heresy. Perhaps that's too strong a statement for some people. To them I'd say that one should at least recognize that private exegesis eliminates the possibility of a single gold-standard interpretation by which all others can be compared."

Catholic blog Ut Unum Sint offers the following.

"The fact of the matter is that this guy was spewing rank anti-Catholic bigotry. If he was spewing antisemitism, people would be up in arms. That people are defending him shows that anti-Catholicism is indeed the 'last acceptable prejudice.' The radio station clearly realizes it has a wide audience and it needs to be positive, and not let its airtime be spent alienating a large block of listeners because of one man's ignorant views."

"It's one thing to discuss differences--it's something else to simply be offensive."

Jeffrey Dubner of Tapped thinks Minto's firing was the result of the prevailing red state mentality in this country.

"We've reached a bizarre place where no conservative religious belief can be challenged in polite society. Pat Buchanan spent last night's Scarborough Country interviewing Marty Minto, a pastor who believes Pope John Paul II will not make it to heaven because he wasn't born again. Minto said that he doesn't believe Jews or, say, the Chinese can get to heaven either. It's no exaggeration to say that this sort of uncompromisingly intolerant religious belief is now not only given a free pass, but sought out and promoted -- particularly on cable television."

Update: Somehow I forgot to post my buddy Rob's response to this whole mess at Unspace.

"Marty Minto is a human being, a fellow Christian, and a man. For all three reasons, I sympathized with him. Far too often, I’ve experienced some form of schadenfreude at someone else’s misfortune, and I don’t like that about myself. That’s not who I wish to be. From what he’s said on his show, I doubt he’d consider me a Christian. That was one more reason to gloat, and the best reason not to. Because someone does not treat me well cannot be allowed to affect how I respond. I learned that lesson over and over as a paramedic. No Christian should rejoice at the misfortune of others."

....

"Let’s face it. This whole episode is another chance for some to mock Jesus and how we, His followers, don’t follow what He said. That can’t ever be good."

"I don’t know enough to comment on whether his firing was right or not. As a blogger, my natural tendency is to reject censorship by any outside force. Silencing someone does not convert them, and it may make things worse (as Eric Rudolph seems so evilly intent on proving). But WORD-FM is a business, not a charity for free speech."

"So instead, let me extend my sympathies to the Rev. Marty Minto and wish him well, hoping that he continues to grow in Christ - things I would wish for everyone. The same goes for Powerball (who runs a great blog, by the way - I need to add it to my rather eclectic blogroll), Chris Buda (who is temporarily at least taking over the show) and whoever eventually takes over the talk show. I do hope for someone a little less extreme, althogh the history of the hosts of the 3 to 6 pm talk slot on WORD doesn’t offer much hope."

Well said, Rob.

Update: Poor Powerball is still knee-deep in this madness.

"I'm dishearten by many of the things I've seen in the press. I'm disappointed how this whole thing has been handled. Just know many of the things being said are false, at best there are only pieces of truth out there. "

Meanwhile, conservative uber-blogger LaShawn Barber has given us her take on things.

"The freedom to share the Gospel as taught in the Bible was why the Reformation took place. There was a time when people were being burned at the stake for not believing that bread was the literal body of Christ or that the mother of Jesus was sinless. While Marty Minto is no Martin Luther, he was doing what the Reformation gave him and others freedom to do. 'Alienating listeners' is just a new cover on the same old, rotten book."

LaShawn is an interesting blogger and I respect her opinions, but I think she's way off the mark here. Marty is not a martyr for the Reformation. He's a good guy with a loud mouth and chip on his shoulder. Even if he's right about the Catholic Church (Obviously I don't think he is), he certainly wasn't winning any souls to his side with his demeanor. You'll win more friends with honey than vinegar, friend. That doesn't mean obfuscating the Gospelto make it more palatable. I just means meeting people where they are in life and loving them as Christ would. They will know we are Christians by our love.

Update: Eric Ragle at Evangelical Underground seems to be convinced that some sort of conspiracy to placate Catholic listeners was responsible for Marty's firing. He also seems to think local reporters are infallible and assumes that they actually listened to the show prior to reporting the story. From the comments:

Me: "Please don’t go down this road. As a Christian and particularly as a Catholic I beg of you not to start making unfounded accusations (or hinting at any)."

ER: "How is this [accusation of Catholic discrimination] unfounded? Don’t you think it suspicious that the Diocese had not complained about Minto but the radio station called them to announce he had been fired?

Forget all of the religious implication. Is it suspicious or not?"

Me: "It’s confusing and odd, but I wouldn’t leap to suspicious. I’ve seen this story generate a lot of awful, venomous anti-Catholic bigotry. To merely say 'It’s suspicious' without being more specific, is inviting people to assume the diocese was lying. I find it odd that the diocese was contacted, but given that they freely offered that odd fact, I doubt that they conspired with station management to get Marty fired.

Another important point - Marty was fired for more than just the pope thing. That week-long highly biased appraisal of Catholic doctrines was just the straw that broke the camels’ back. You can find the official press release from WORD-FM, as well as comments from Marty’s producer, on my blog, by the way."

ER: "Well I’m certainly not implying that the diocese is at fault, but I do think that the radio may have been looking to score points with the diocese, thus the notification.

What else would WORD-FM have us believe [than that he was fired for more than the pope thing]?"

Me: "As a listener of the show, I can assure you that his abrasiveness extended well beyond Catholicism."

ER: "I mean absolutely no offense whatsoever, but at this point I think we couldn’t exactly classify you as unbiased. Wouldn’t you agree?"

Me: "Most of the time Marty didn’t talk about Catholic doctrine. Frankly, if he did, I probably would have given up battling windmills and listened to a different station. Therefore, most of the time I was listening as just another Christian with no more or less bias than any other Christian. There was a lot I liked about Marty’s show, but there were alos a number of things I disliked. His treatment of callers he disagreed with often left something to be desired. He was alos rather uncritical of his own doctrinal beliefs. For a man who didn’t want to be under a pope, he certainly pontificated like one. It would have been nice if he didn’t automatically assume his positions were right and go from there. Some intellectual honesty and willingness to put his beliefs to test (by his own standards of Scripture interpreting Scripture, even) from time to time would have gone a long way.

I notice you’ve posted the Scarborough Country transcript and highlighted the bit where Marty mentions his producer. His producer (Shaun 'Powerball' Pierce) didn’t fire him. Nor did he ask that he be fired. If you ever actually read his blog (http://powerballplace.blogspot.com), you’d know that he and Marty are friends. Shaun has had to deal with a lot of false and hurtful accusations because of this mess. Please don’t add to them."

ER: "Look, I realize you’ve taken it upon yourself to issue some damage control in this situation, but I’m not adding anything to this situation, only relating facts. The significance of his producer being Catholic is big and needs to be noted for people to make accurate judgements.

I normally don’t allow external links, but in order to allow your defense, I’ll let it remain. You have yet to answer my question regarding your obvious bias in this situation. "

Me: "1) I confess I did not read your comment policy before posting that link. I’m sorry.
2) Does being Catholic affect my view of the situation? Yes. Doesn’t being an Evangelical affect yours?
3) Let’s be clear. On the whole, I like Marty and I enjoyed his show. I am not out to demonize him.
4) Should Marty have been fired? I really don’t know. I’m not privy to a lot of the behind-the-scenes info. However, as a daily listener to the show, I know what Marty’s on-air demeanor was like. His views on Catholic doctrine annoyed me - mostly in how badly he misunderstood them - but that didn’t stop me from listening to or enjoying the show. If his coverage of Catholicism is what got him fired, I’ll eat my words and be very disappointed with WORD-FM and other responsible parties. However, there were many other issues that he handled very poorly and he often lacked compassion for people in their suffering. For instance, he refused to believe that alcoholism or any other addiction might have a biophysical component that might impair someone’s will and relieve some of their culpability for their sins. Marty has, on the whole, a good on-air presense, is a nice guy, and is interesting to listen to. On the other hand, sometimes he crossed lines.

I just read the comment policies and found no explicit or implicit prohibition on external links unless you deem them to be 'anti-christ'.

For the record, I’m not 'attempting to flame or start another ridiculous debate' or 'take a shot at the champ'. I just want people to '[p]lease be respectful' because they 'just might learn something new'. I don’t think anyone but those parties directly involved really know all the reasons why Marty was fired. I fail to see how conjecture based on incomplete and poor researched media reports enlightens anyone or shows them the love and saving power of Jesus Christ. "

ER: " And an avid 'listener of the show can assume to know more than local reporters?

You’ve begun to contradict yourself. I’m pulling the plug on this one. "

That comment thread is now closed. I find it ironic that someone claiming that Marty was censored by Catholic discrimination was so quick to pull the plug on me.

Fellow Christian Carnival contributor Byron Harvey, of A Ticking Time Blog, offers some intelligent thoughts on the matter.

"I like Marty; the few times I’ve chosen to grit out the bad reception and listen to him, I think he’s done a pretty good job. When I heard of his firing this week, I dashed off a personal email to him, thanking him for his good work. And I prepared to go blog’s-a-blazin’ with righteous indignation directed squarely at WORD-FM and any bystanders who might have happened too close by....Having had a pretty bad experience personally with WORD-FM,...I figured that I had all the grist I needed to let loose with both cannons."

"But a funny thing happened on the way to the blog…"

"In doing my fact-checking at WORD-FM, I happened upon a link to an article for pastors written by Ron Walters, the Vice-President for Church Relations for Salem Communications, the parent company of WORD-FM. Reading Ron’s pedigree, and having an honest desire to fix the problems I see vis a vis Christian media -rather than merely rail at them - I decided to email Ron to get his side of the story...I was a bit abrupt in my first email to him; I told him that, because of a previous experience, I didn’t have a lot of regard for either WORD-FM nor for Salem, but that I’d give him a chance to respond to my questions; to wit, 1.) was there “more than met the eye” regarding Marty’s firing? And 2.) would the station have fired Marty merely for entertaining a question regarding the state of the pope’s soul. Ron’s answers to me were that yes, there was more to the story than was being reported—while at the same time, I should point out that Ron was very clear in his respect for Marty and his ministry, and that, no, Marty would not have been fired merely for this."

....

"...Are we doing our homework before we cut loose? Or are we only getting one side of the story? It seems to me that we need to take the extra few minutes to check out both sides....There is a time and place to criticize, and no one who reads this blog with any regularity would think I shied away from that. But I want to be part of the solution to the problems with Christian media, and if I can build a platform for doing that by showing some restraint, then restraint will be the order of the day. And the order of the blog…"

It's nice to see that at least one Evangelical isn't going off half-cocked.

Update: Get Religion has finally reported on this story. Unfortunately, the coverage is rather anemic and apparently entirely based on the Tribune-Review article. No additional digging was done. The assumption is made that the article accurately reports the reason for Marty's firing. I'm not convinced. The piece ends with Terry Mattingly mentioning a mildly interesting point about Catholics listening to Evangelical radio stations. *yawn* Aren't the consipracy theories flooding the blogosphere more interesting and worth shedding some light on?

In more exciting news, Marty has issued a statement to "Friends and Supporters" via his website. It's too long to quote here. I'll assume folks go there and read it for themselves. Suffice to say that he's perpetuating the conspiracy theories I've seen on numerous blogs. He also makes some comments about WORD-FM general manager Chuck Gratner that may or may not be true. He also fails to see the difference between being a talented radio personality and being appropriate for a Christian station. It's not inconsistent for Gratner and the station to reward him for his accomplishments and to also fire him for not meeting expectations.

On a side note, I hate to kick a man when he's down, but would it have hurt for him to use a spelling/grammar checker? It's one thing to butcher English on the air when you don't have a grammar or pronunciation aid handy. It just looks sloppy when it's typed up as his 'official' rebuttal for the world to see.

Update: I'm fallen behind on other bloggers' coverage of this story. I'll remedy that soon. In the meantime, please read this.