Comments on: The Politics of Life and Death or Right and Left?

By: theomorph

theomorph — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

"And here I thought it was an attempt to save a woman from being treated like the living dead and forced to waste away painfully."

Or is it an attempt to save a woman from having to basically be living dead by allowing her to die without further technological molestation?

"Michael doesn't give a rat's behind about his marital rights. His girlfriend and their two children are evidence of that."

First, you shouldn't be making that kind of judgment about a guy whose thoughts you know not. Second, it's difficult to talk about "marital rights" when one of the partners can't even function like a human being. If your wife had been stuck in this state for five years (which is about how long I think she was before he hooked up with his girlfriend), and you were still a normal person needing love and companionship that your wife could no longer provide, not even minimally, would you maintain the kind of loyalty that would almost certainly mean deep emotional solitude for an indefinite period of time?

"Now tell me why Terri must die painfully at her husband's whim."

Tell me why God had to destroy her ability to live at his whim, and then demand that her body be kept alive while her mind is either obscured or destroyed, at whatever financial expense to whomever, turning her family against her husband, taking up an extraordinary amount of time in court, involving a state legislature, a governor, the federal legislature, a president, and the minds of perhaps millions of people, and allow her plight to become a political football in our already fractured nation, all just--apparently--to prove some kind of doctrinal point about an alleged right to life, the enjoyment of which has been fundamentally denied to her not by any medical treatment or lack thereof, but by the physiological condition within her own body?

Do you really want to worship a God who must be somewhere saying, "Yes! Keep my child plugged in! Drag out her poor, pathetic existence as long as you can with your medical technology! Everyone must know that, despite the mortality of humans and my offering of everlasting life beyond the grave, no one has a right to die until I say so, and I don't feel like saying so right now (even though she would die without human intervention, which might seem like I've said so, but really I haven't), not because she doesn't deserve to return to me, but because I need to prove a point to all you people down there--that you have a responsibility to keep death from happening, even though it's part of the punishment for your own sin, and you might expect that I would look askance on bucking your punishment, I don't, because I'm God and I don't have to make sense!--and she's as good a pawn as any!"

By: theomorph

theomorph — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

"Yes, I would. Five months ago I made promise before God and man that I would be faithful to my wife, forsaking all others, through good times and bad, sickness and health for as long as we BOTH shall live."

But does that justify judging Mr. Schiavo by your own standards, when his are perhaps different? For instance, I can imagine him having a difficult time seeing the person he married in the vastly incapacitated body that she has become. From my perspective, and perhaps from his as well, though I don't know, the idea of "my wife" as well as what it means to "live" are things that might go beyond the physical existence and temporal continuity of the corporeal body. Is she still really his "wife"? Is she still really "living"? I think any reflective person who wants to seriously ask those questions ought to be allowed to do so, because the words I'm talking about are not so much things as they are ideas. What duty does Mr. Schiavo have to his "wife," what duty does he have to her body, and what duty does he have to their marriage when it is no longer capable of functioning as a marriage? How elastic are the terms "sickness and health"?

You are certainly free to come to your own conclusions and convictions, then stand by them, so why isn't Mr. Schiavo?

It's clearly a difficult situation, and there is no clear ethical path that a majority of people discussing the issue are willing to follow. Since a social consensus is impossible, it seems most sensible to put aside that possibility. Let Mr. Schiavo make the decision himself, and allow the Schindlers to disagree and take that disagreement into the court system for mediation (which they have done). The really important thing for the stability of our society is not whether Terri Schiavo lives or dies, but whether the rest of us, in dealing with her situation, are able to adhere to our own rules by law.

Unfortunately, perhaps, the woman and the dilemma in the center of this maelstrom have become secondary, and of greater importance is how we, as a society, are able to solve the dilemma, not so much which solution we find. Executive and Legislative involvement in a situation that is clearly under the purview of the Judiciary may seem exciting to the people who are most concerned about the medical dilemma itself, but the meaning of that action as it relates to the rest of our society and how we deal with our differences in general is not very bright at all.

By: Funky Dung

Funky Dung — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

"If your wife had been stuck in this state for five
years (which is about how long I think she was before he hooked up
with his girlfriend), and you were still a normal person needing love
and companionship that your wife could no longer provide, not even
minimally, would you maintain the kind of loyalty that would almost
certainly mean deep emotional solitude for an indefinite period of
time?"

Yes, I would. Five months ago I made promise before God and man that I would be faithful to my wife, forsaking all others, through good times and bad, sickness and health for as long as we BOTH shall live.

By: Funky Dung

Funky Dung — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

"Or is it an attempt to save a woman from having to basically be
living dead by allowing her to die without further technological
molestation?"

Theo, you're one of a seemingly small minority who are making that point. It is one that is worth discussing. However, most of the negative comments I've read on the net are more interested in states' rights or Michael's rights, rather than Terri's best interests.

By: Steve N

Steve N — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

If one were to be in such a state, desiring that one take no heroic efforts to keep one alive is perfectly legitimate. The shame is that Terri did not make any unequivocal statement to that effect.

I'm not sure feeding (via spoon, straw, or tube) should ever be considered heroic, irrespective of her chances of recovery. And further it seems far from clear that by rehabilative effort she might no regain the ability to eat/hydrate via mouth.

My $0.02,

By: Rick

Rick — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Rick, are you aware that you misspelled "politics" in your blog's title?

I am now –(embrassd smiley) and have appropriately scolded my visitors for not pointing that out earlier.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

I don't consider food and water heroic, either Steve, provided that the mechanism for deliver said nutrition is not causing GI irritation or infection (not the case here). I do not, however, want to be labelled as some conservative nutjob who wants to keep people alive at all costs. There are lines, but Terri has not passed that line.

By: Michael Gallaugher

Michael Gallaugher — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

I think it was the Bible verse that really got them foaming at the mouth, what do you think?

By: dlw

dlw — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

If I were in Terri's position, I would want my spouse to be able to remarry and have children.

I would also rather have the money used to keep me alive spent saving lives in the under-developed world. If I am in a PVS or near a PVS and no longer able to glorify God with my vocation and can no longer recognize and love my family then I'd rather go and meet my maker.

dlw

By: dlw

dlw — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

I´m not sure what is a fair shake. From what I had read, she had been given ample time to recover. And I guess the devil really is in the details...

From what I had read, it seemed a better diagnosis was needed for Terri.

dlw